Thank you for the nuanced reporting (this and your companion piece at The Line). I’ve been following what’s happening at Columbia and elsewhere closely, but no one has been able to give me as much flavour and nuance as this.
As a Jew, I’m deeply troubled by rising anti-semitism. As a human, I’m horrified by Israel’s response to the October 7 attacks as well as the attacks themselves.
Nothing is simple and there are no black and whites. Your reporting shows that.
Do you read "The Ink/Anand Giridharadas"? Excellent journalism there as well. I watched this from Anand and it really tore me up. He and the other guests were excellent but I couldn't believe how bad the two anchors were. If this is what the most left-leaning mainstream media is spooning out then we are really in dire straits. I agree with your take entirely. Protests are messy. The students are young and passionate and though they sometimes lack nuance they have some very important points and will undoubtedly be on the right side of history. What a horrible shit show this all is. Thank you for having the patience and fortitude to enter the fray and help us understand more clearly what is happening!
I've been enjoying Anand's Substack, yes! I was hoping to snag an interview with him for BE&S about his most recent book, but haven't had luck getting in touch with him yet.
I am becoming more and more grumpy about my information sources these days. My tolerance for bad journalism and lazy opinion has shot down. Things are so dire, the industry is such a mess, and the stakes are so hight that we can't afford to dick around anymore.
Oh god it's Morning Joe. I'm constitutionally forbidden from watching Morning Joe. Just some of the worst television on the air. (And if they invite me on, I will happily accept.)
Maybe I'm expecting too much from university students. When you said, "He's only 20", I thought you were going to say 16. Have we extended youthful folly to age 25? 30? Do they even understand that there will be (should be) consequences for their actions? Do they understand that non-protestors who are being inconvenienced or intimidated have rights too?
I'm certainly not saying there should be no consequences. But I do think those consequences should be meted out at the university level, not on the national stage. Should he be suspended for making such an appeal to violence? Probably. Should he be the subject of a nightly broadcast on all of Fox News' talking heads programs? No.
And that's basically where I'm at with all of this stuff. Protest and conflict happen *constantly* on university campuses. And those disputes should be settled on them, too.
Sounds right, sounds right. Appreciate your engaging with crotchety people like me. I was born cynical. Even as a teenager I didn’t like teenagers. Never impressed with anti-Vietnam protests. Those military kids, no older than the protesters, had to listen to these same righteous kids call them baby-killers as they returned from service. I’m equally unimpressed by this 21st century edition of privileged and self-involved righteousness. Yes I know a small number may actually know more than what the heart-wrenching photographs of suffering on social media show. But most of them are excited by the edginess of being in a protest, the girls are tripping on the “community sharing and bonding”, and they’re all feeling mighty self-important.
Mixed feelings on this article. Literally since around October 10th, pro Hamas hit the streets with a vengeance. Perhaps investigate the dark money behind the protests. They are well organized and cultish. On another note, Shai Davidai assistant professor at Columbia has been locked out for expressing his views on the campus protests. While Qatar sends billions $$ to USA universities, makes us wonder what is happening in the classrooms? This should be addressed not just the woke students thinking it is cool to chant antisemitism. This isn’t just in campuses it’s weekly protests globally around the world.
Mixed feelings are entirely understandable, given the subject matter!
But I'd push back on a couple of those things. I don't think these are "pro-Hamas" rallies. I know people who have joined them, including Jews, who despise Hamas more than anything. They just also want to see a ceasefire deal — and the hostages released.
On the flipside, I also hear leftists insists that all rallies in support of Israel are "pro-killing Palestinian babies rallies." I think that's obscene, too. I don't think generalizing the views of the other side helps foster any kind of useful dialog. It would have been just as easy to call the anti-Vietnam War protesters "pro-Viet Cong" or the anti-Iraq War protesters "pro-al-Qaeda."
As for the "dark money" — one of the most common emails I get from readers is a request that I dig into the dark money behind a particular politician or movement. I can tell you, having done this for quite awhile, the dark money is almost never there. I've seen these protests, I was at this encampment: They're not rolling in the dough. Qatar has donated a bunch to American universities, yup, as has Israel! Those donations flow into the universities to fund programs and partnership that are (at least generally-speaking) disclosed. There's a whole long discussion to be had about the wisdom and ethics of that, but I don't think anyone winds up at their political position because of that money. There are those who argue that Israeli and Jewish support for Columbia is fomenting the administration's decision to send in the cops — I think that's as wrong as saying the protests are happening thanks to Qatari financing.
And, hey, I'm not going to argue with your feelings about the protesters. And I absolutely appreciate how offensive and troubling some of their rhetoric is — particularly when it glorifies Hamas. But I think we've also got to recognize that these students have wound up at these positions for a reason — and I don't think it can be chalked up to dark money. I think, at the worst end of things, they're listening to influencers and activists who are genuinely anti-Israel, who are actually anti-semitic, and who rationalize radical language. I think we have to accept that that's a domestic problem, not one of international money. (I say this about the rise of the far-right, as well.) If we want to de-radicalize people, and bring everyone back into something resembling a civil discourse, it's going to require a lot of work. Sending in the cops is only going to make that harder.
Thanks for reading! I do appreciate the comment. I think the more we can discuss, and disagree, reasonably, the better off we're all going to be.
It’s hard to believe that 16 million Jews are an issue and not the billions of Muslims, Christians. I’ve been reading a lot of books and articles plus my husband is Jewish but not religious. Jewish is not about necessarily religion it’s about indigenous to the land of Israel. Sadly, Palestine wants to wipe Israel off the map. I find it interesting that the people will protest against Israel but not for the hundreds of millions killed in Middle East and Africa nations by their own Islamic governments. I also think you are misled by the organizers of this protest movement. We can go on and on but this is how it started in 1939, Hitler was clever.
I don't think Jews are an issue — I don't think any religion is an issue! I think what happens in Israel and Palestine hits close to home for people, because so many people have ties to the region: Whether they're Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
I think opting to make this about religion is a massive mistake. It was Arab governments who helped Israel shoot down Iranian rockets the other week. Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt, in particular, have been working really hard to try and secure a deal to release the hostages — and disarm Hamas. You can also, absolutely, hate the actions of other governments: Whether it's Hamas, Fatah, Iran, etc.
But I think vilifying and demonizing a class of people here, whether they're Jewish or Muslim, is a real mistake.
I did a quick read of the article and went to pg 53 of the report (finances) to see that the funding comes mostly from the university, student members and small donations. As to the reporting they said the tents are high end but clearly the are not (check amazon for green tent you'll see then for $255USD and they went on about the organic food. We have no idea if donated and the organic makes sense for that age/political group. I just don't see the international ring angle and I have also looked through Warren Kinsella's material and also fail to see it.
I just came to say I enjoyed your appearance on Canadaland and appreciated you pushing back against Jessie. I don’t think his concern are wrong, but he does have a bit of a double standard. I laughed when you called him a dick.
Thanks for the article, and since I also have a membership with The Line, I read their coverage too. I understand the nuances, and no surprise, find myself again disgusted with the stupid MSM coverage. Having said that, I can't really feel any empathy for the students. They all seem so entitled to me, useful idiots for Hamas and the Islamists. And why aren't they protesting Egypt for closing their border, an effective escape hatch for the Palestinian families? To be honest I'd rather hear from the students who are NOT involved in the protests. I have a theory - the protestors will be mostly made up of arts and philosophy students, and the non-protestors will be mostly in the pure and applied sciences.
I think students are, kind of by definition, entitled. They're entitled to a semi-closed world where they get to be political actors of consequence, without as much pressure or responsibility as in the real world. And they act like it. I really keep beating this drum: That's the point of university! It's also why we should put waaaaay less emphasis on covering them as closely as we do. It's unfair to them, honestly.
I will say, though: There are definitely those who want to rationalize and apologize for Hamas and their terror. But I've also heard from plenty of students who were quick to, unprompted, say: I hate Hamas, I want them gone, free the hostages, I just don't think more war will achieve those aims. I do think most of them are closer to the mainstream that some of this coverage would suggest.
I think back to my own time as a younger person and specifically to my feelings about Israel/Palestine. I was so sure when I was 20 that there was injustices being done, and there was, it was 1989 after all. Like many, I never really went back prior to 1967, this last seven months I have looked past The USA, The Brits and The Ottoman Empires to try to get a clearing picture. Alas, I am still searching.
Thank you for the nuanced reporting (this and your companion piece at The Line). I’ve been following what’s happening at Columbia and elsewhere closely, but no one has been able to give me as much flavour and nuance as this.
As a Jew, I’m deeply troubled by rising anti-semitism. As a human, I’m horrified by Israel’s response to the October 7 attacks as well as the attacks themselves.
Nothing is simple and there are no black and whites. Your reporting shows that.
Do you read "The Ink/Anand Giridharadas"? Excellent journalism there as well. I watched this from Anand and it really tore me up. He and the other guests were excellent but I couldn't believe how bad the two anchors were. If this is what the most left-leaning mainstream media is spooning out then we are really in dire straits. I agree with your take entirely. Protests are messy. The students are young and passionate and though they sometimes lack nuance they have some very important points and will undoubtedly be on the right side of history. What a horrible shit show this all is. Thank you for having the patience and fortitude to enter the fray and help us understand more clearly what is happening!
I've been enjoying Anand's Substack, yes! I was hoping to snag an interview with him for BE&S about his most recent book, but haven't had luck getting in touch with him yet.
I am becoming more and more grumpy about my information sources these days. My tolerance for bad journalism and lazy opinion has shot down. Things are so dire, the industry is such a mess, and the stakes are so hight that we can't afford to dick around anymore.
Between substacks (like yours) and podcasts I find I'm able to access enough good information. But yeah, there's a lot of shit out there...
I forgot to add the link! I'm sure you have seen it but posting it here for others who may not have. https://open.substack.com/pub/anandwrites/p/on-civil-disobedience-campus-protests?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=7ov7m
Oh god it's Morning Joe. I'm constitutionally forbidden from watching Morning Joe. Just some of the worst television on the air. (And if they invite me on, I will happily accept.)
Maybe I'm expecting too much from university students. When you said, "He's only 20", I thought you were going to say 16. Have we extended youthful folly to age 25? 30? Do they even understand that there will be (should be) consequences for their actions? Do they understand that non-protestors who are being inconvenienced or intimidated have rights too?
I'm certainly not saying there should be no consequences. But I do think those consequences should be meted out at the university level, not on the national stage. Should he be suspended for making such an appeal to violence? Probably. Should he be the subject of a nightly broadcast on all of Fox News' talking heads programs? No.
And that's basically where I'm at with all of this stuff. Protest and conflict happen *constantly* on university campuses. And those disputes should be settled on them, too.
Sounds right, sounds right. Appreciate your engaging with crotchety people like me. I was born cynical. Even as a teenager I didn’t like teenagers. Never impressed with anti-Vietnam protests. Those military kids, no older than the protesters, had to listen to these same righteous kids call them baby-killers as they returned from service. I’m equally unimpressed by this 21st century edition of privileged and self-involved righteousness. Yes I know a small number may actually know more than what the heart-wrenching photographs of suffering on social media show. But most of them are excited by the edginess of being in a protest, the girls are tripping on the “community sharing and bonding”, and they’re all feeling mighty self-important.
Mixed feelings on this article. Literally since around October 10th, pro Hamas hit the streets with a vengeance. Perhaps investigate the dark money behind the protests. They are well organized and cultish. On another note, Shai Davidai assistant professor at Columbia has been locked out for expressing his views on the campus protests. While Qatar sends billions $$ to USA universities, makes us wonder what is happening in the classrooms? This should be addressed not just the woke students thinking it is cool to chant antisemitism. This isn’t just in campuses it’s weekly protests globally around the world.
Mixed feelings are entirely understandable, given the subject matter!
But I'd push back on a couple of those things. I don't think these are "pro-Hamas" rallies. I know people who have joined them, including Jews, who despise Hamas more than anything. They just also want to see a ceasefire deal — and the hostages released.
On the flipside, I also hear leftists insists that all rallies in support of Israel are "pro-killing Palestinian babies rallies." I think that's obscene, too. I don't think generalizing the views of the other side helps foster any kind of useful dialog. It would have been just as easy to call the anti-Vietnam War protesters "pro-Viet Cong" or the anti-Iraq War protesters "pro-al-Qaeda."
As for the "dark money" — one of the most common emails I get from readers is a request that I dig into the dark money behind a particular politician or movement. I can tell you, having done this for quite awhile, the dark money is almost never there. I've seen these protests, I was at this encampment: They're not rolling in the dough. Qatar has donated a bunch to American universities, yup, as has Israel! Those donations flow into the universities to fund programs and partnership that are (at least generally-speaking) disclosed. There's a whole long discussion to be had about the wisdom and ethics of that, but I don't think anyone winds up at their political position because of that money. There are those who argue that Israeli and Jewish support for Columbia is fomenting the administration's decision to send in the cops — I think that's as wrong as saying the protests are happening thanks to Qatari financing.
And, hey, I'm not going to argue with your feelings about the protesters. And I absolutely appreciate how offensive and troubling some of their rhetoric is — particularly when it glorifies Hamas. But I think we've also got to recognize that these students have wound up at these positions for a reason — and I don't think it can be chalked up to dark money. I think, at the worst end of things, they're listening to influencers and activists who are genuinely anti-Israel, who are actually anti-semitic, and who rationalize radical language. I think we have to accept that that's a domestic problem, not one of international money. (I say this about the rise of the far-right, as well.) If we want to de-radicalize people, and bring everyone back into something resembling a civil discourse, it's going to require a lot of work. Sending in the cops is only going to make that harder.
Thanks for reading! I do appreciate the comment. I think the more we can discuss, and disagree, reasonably, the better off we're all going to be.
It’s hard to believe that 16 million Jews are an issue and not the billions of Muslims, Christians. I’ve been reading a lot of books and articles plus my husband is Jewish but not religious. Jewish is not about necessarily religion it’s about indigenous to the land of Israel. Sadly, Palestine wants to wipe Israel off the map. I find it interesting that the people will protest against Israel but not for the hundreds of millions killed in Middle East and Africa nations by their own Islamic governments. I also think you are misled by the organizers of this protest movement. We can go on and on but this is how it started in 1939, Hitler was clever.
I don't think Jews are an issue — I don't think any religion is an issue! I think what happens in Israel and Palestine hits close to home for people, because so many people have ties to the region: Whether they're Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.
I think opting to make this about religion is a massive mistake. It was Arab governments who helped Israel shoot down Iranian rockets the other week. Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt, in particular, have been working really hard to try and secure a deal to release the hostages — and disarm Hamas. You can also, absolutely, hate the actions of other governments: Whether it's Hamas, Fatah, Iran, etc.
But I think vilifying and demonizing a class of people here, whether they're Jewish or Muslim, is a real mistake.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13363943/Pro-Palestine-group-Columbia-University-protests-funding-linked-Hamas.html
$3 million campus group with 250 chapters , this goes back years
I did a quick read of the article and went to pg 53 of the report (finances) to see that the funding comes mostly from the university, student members and small donations. As to the reporting they said the tents are high end but clearly the are not (check amazon for green tent you'll see then for $255USD and they went on about the organic food. We have no idea if donated and the organic makes sense for that age/political group. I just don't see the international ring angle and I have also looked through Warren Kinsella's material and also fail to see it.
I just came to say I enjoyed your appearance on Canadaland and appreciated you pushing back against Jessie. I don’t think his concern are wrong, but he does have a bit of a double standard. I laughed when you called him a dick.
Any thoughts on faculty's role in some of the protests and building takeovers? "Leave them kids alone" doesn't really apply to tenured faculty.
Thanks for the article, and since I also have a membership with The Line, I read their coverage too. I understand the nuances, and no surprise, find myself again disgusted with the stupid MSM coverage. Having said that, I can't really feel any empathy for the students. They all seem so entitled to me, useful idiots for Hamas and the Islamists. And why aren't they protesting Egypt for closing their border, an effective escape hatch for the Palestinian families? To be honest I'd rather hear from the students who are NOT involved in the protests. I have a theory - the protestors will be mostly made up of arts and philosophy students, and the non-protestors will be mostly in the pure and applied sciences.
I think students are, kind of by definition, entitled. They're entitled to a semi-closed world where they get to be political actors of consequence, without as much pressure or responsibility as in the real world. And they act like it. I really keep beating this drum: That's the point of university! It's also why we should put waaaaay less emphasis on covering them as closely as we do. It's unfair to them, honestly.
I will say, though: There are definitely those who want to rationalize and apologize for Hamas and their terror. But I've also heard from plenty of students who were quick to, unprompted, say: I hate Hamas, I want them gone, free the hostages, I just don't think more war will achieve those aims. I do think most of them are closer to the mainstream that some of this coverage would suggest.
I think back to my own time as a younger person and specifically to my feelings about Israel/Palestine. I was so sure when I was 20 that there was injustices being done, and there was, it was 1989 after all. Like many, I never really went back prior to 1967, this last seven months I have looked past The USA, The Brits and The Ottoman Empires to try to get a clearing picture. Alas, I am still searching.