Great article! Reading the headline I was concerned that it was going to be the same one sided analysis that I frequently read! It is not! So much of the discourse right now is about assigning blame in a difficult and complex situation! I believe strongly that we need to let that go, let go of our biases and look to the future! I also believe that the west needs and actually even the UN need to look in the mirror and understand the role they have played in perpetuating this crisis! Extremism on both sides is not conducive to any effective solution! There has to be an acceptance from both sides that Israel is here to stay, as is a Palestine! I also believe that there needs to be an agreement to this from surrounding nations including Iran. Everyone deserves peace! Everyone deserves prosperity. For the record, this is from a Jewish Zionist woman! Zionism at its core is the belief that Israel is the Jewish homeland and that it must continue to exist! I am not a genocide supporting, baby killer nor am I a self hating Jew! Having a middle of the road perspective has cost me relationships within my Jewish community and from my friends on the left! Who knew that promoting peace would make me and many others such a pariah!
Things are so dire that we're really disinclined to assume that we can even find consensus with the person on the 'other' side. But sometimes the worst part of the conflict immediately precedes the most unexpected reconciliation. Things were horrific immediately before the Good Friday process, e.g. People had grown so disgusted with the PIRA and the loyalists that they rushed to support a deal that finally marginalized the militias. I think if we push the right levers, here, people will make a similar decision. Hopefully that will thaw the hardened positions you're describing. It might seem impossible now, but it's a better plan than more war.
I think it's hard for there to be an acceptance that Israel and Palestine are both here to stay when Israel (backed by America) has the capacity and the desire to wipe Palestine from the map. And not just the Israeli government but a substantial majority of the Israeli populace. Personally, I think a two-state solution is a mistake. I'm much more in favor of one state. Israel can be an ethnostate or a democracy. It can't be both.
Are their no Canadians to suggest our solution? Has it worked THAT badly?
Levesque did not lead to Trudeau shelling pockets of resistance near Eaton's.
Turned out we just had to change the name to "Eaton" and something in there about their own pension and justice systems and all kinds of little, honestly, little concessions of partial independence. Les Anglais may bitch and whine about how lucky, lucky Quebec gets special treatment, but....it seems to have worked. No killings.
The new Trudeau could change the story with the "Canadian 1.5 State solution".
I'm kidding. Of course. Or, really, providing a Poilievre fantasy issue.
You can absolutely devise a version of reality where a one-state solution works — there's already plenty of Arab Israelis, e.g., who have a good amount of political power, in normal times. I just don't think it's the reality we're living in. It's not like this was a functional relationship that had tensions arising from inequality (Quebec, Northern Ireland) it was a fundamentally unworkable relationship from the very beginning. It would have been nice if the world had figured this out in 1948, instead of shrugging and moving on, but here we are.
Separating would also be *very good* for Israeli politics. If a division were fair and amicable, it would finally remove, I think, that existential dread that Israelis face.
I guess if Israel was founded almost a century prior and they had fought a seven year war with only one Arab neighbour, then maybe there would be some equivalencies. Sadly, Israel was the last country in the region carved out by the Colonial Powers and seems to have paid the price from the start.
The entire area as stands today was created by Colonial Powers. Before that it was the Empire of the day that decided the delineation. If it was done in 1848 we wouldn't be having this conversation but, rather mostly symbolic sharing as in Canada.
Important to note that Israeli citizens have been anti-Netanyahu for quite some time and I think that’s important. Also the young up-and-coming Israeli generation seem to have been serious peace-niks especially regarding Palestine. Now they’ve been radicalized, most probably for life.
I’m not as sanguin as you that ordinary Palestinians are as secular-thinking (meaning they just want a good life regardless of their culture and religious beliefs) as you imply. Sad to say, but islamic countries don’t seem to fare well overall, especially for girls and women. West Africa, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, and on and on. Those who have inherited a great bargaining power (oil), do well economically but they have a one-horse economy that is never good in a changing world. And we see the unrest in Iran. Part is due I suppose to economic decline due to international sanctions, but mostly I think the young people are fed-up with the status quo.
I hope you’re right Justin, but I remain deeply sceptical. I believe given freedom, Palestinians will squander it.
While I think colonialism can become an excuse for bad, corrupt governments behaving badly, it's hard to separate out all the promise and opportunity in some of these countries — Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq — from Western (and Soviet) meddling, which left them ravaged, poorer, angry, and susceptible to takeover and radicalization. Once upon a time, I was pursuing a history degree with this general focus.
Anyway, I think you're right that young people (and, increasingly, old one too!) are fed up with the status quo in many of these countries. They want security, liberty, and stability. Israel has a really great opportunity, here, to help Palestinians get all three — and to help itself in the process.
I agree « Israel has a great opportunity to help Palestinians » but as it stands now I can’t imagine Palestinians ever cooperating with Jews. My brother backpacked around the Middle East back in the 70’s and 80’s when it was somewhat safe then for a white male, and he was invited to share dinner often with families (men only, of course). He said languages, cuisine, and culture changed depending on region, except for one thing in common: hatred of Jews. Dogs, they were called. I never forgot that, anecdotal as it is. I truly want to be an optimist like you Justin and I do wish the best for Palestinians. They live in paradise. In my very humble opinion (hope to be argued out of it) I think they would have to rise above Islam and Sharia to overcome a medieval mindset and truly flourish.
Reading that comment it strikes me that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence for populations. Countries that are blowing up want stability and countries that have had stability for decades currently have pretty big chunks of their populations that seem to want to blow it up.
Thanks for taking on this issue and for outlining a possible path to peace. With such a lengthy warring history, its clear that polarization isn't a solution.
I grew up idolizing Israel, from Charleton-Heston-provided History (Good Guys vs Romans and Egyptians, 2 movies), to all their wars and their responses to terror attacks. Always the heroes, both military and moral. Took 1985-1995 to turn me around.
I read "The Israel Lobby" when it came out, and the Gaza response has made me completely accept that the book is dead-on. There's nothing opponents can do. There is no "Palestine Lobby". At least not remotely comparable. Israel will lose power over America when multiple Congressmen lose their jobs to a dedicated pro-Palestine voting bloc like Israel enjoys.
About all journalists can do is make sure we are aware of what's happening to Palestinians, and monitor polls - which should change, one would think, over coming decades. Yes, decades. Israel will lose support some decade,maybe have to accept terms they don't like. But not this decade.
That "future" dream was a sweet dream, though. One can hope.
I wanted to draw the parallel between 2 'countries' under occupation, with the expectation that no one would suggest any Ukrainian President would cede to Russia's minimum requirements for peace.
Why expect it of a Palestinian President?
Turning 180°, is it likely that any Israeli Prime Minister would cede to Palestinians' minimum requirements for peace?
The difference between Israel and Russia is that Israel still has a system that can change itself. Netanyahu doesn't want a long-term peace deal, he's made that clear. The Israeli people have the power to replace him and usher in someone who does — and more and more it looks like that's what they're do. In that context, it's both sides' obligations to get to the table and make a deal. So it's not uniformly the Palestinians' responsibility, but they're half of the equation, for sure.
"...one would suggest any Ukrainian President would cede to Russia's minimum requirements for peace." are your referring to the occupied territories or to the entire state of Israel?
Great article! Reading the headline I was concerned that it was going to be the same one sided analysis that I frequently read! It is not! So much of the discourse right now is about assigning blame in a difficult and complex situation! I believe strongly that we need to let that go, let go of our biases and look to the future! I also believe that the west needs and actually even the UN need to look in the mirror and understand the role they have played in perpetuating this crisis! Extremism on both sides is not conducive to any effective solution! There has to be an acceptance from both sides that Israel is here to stay, as is a Palestine! I also believe that there needs to be an agreement to this from surrounding nations including Iran. Everyone deserves peace! Everyone deserves prosperity. For the record, this is from a Jewish Zionist woman! Zionism at its core is the belief that Israel is the Jewish homeland and that it must continue to exist! I am not a genocide supporting, baby killer nor am I a self hating Jew! Having a middle of the road perspective has cost me relationships within my Jewish community and from my friends on the left! Who knew that promoting peace would make me and many others such a pariah!
Things are so dire that we're really disinclined to assume that we can even find consensus with the person on the 'other' side. But sometimes the worst part of the conflict immediately precedes the most unexpected reconciliation. Things were horrific immediately before the Good Friday process, e.g. People had grown so disgusted with the PIRA and the loyalists that they rushed to support a deal that finally marginalized the militias. I think if we push the right levers, here, people will make a similar decision. Hopefully that will thaw the hardened positions you're describing. It might seem impossible now, but it's a better plan than more war.
Thanks for reading, and for the kind words!
I think it's hard for there to be an acceptance that Israel and Palestine are both here to stay when Israel (backed by America) has the capacity and the desire to wipe Palestine from the map. And not just the Israeli government but a substantial majority of the Israeli populace. Personally, I think a two-state solution is a mistake. I'm much more in favor of one state. Israel can be an ethnostate or a democracy. It can't be both.
Are their no Canadians to suggest our solution? Has it worked THAT badly?
Levesque did not lead to Trudeau shelling pockets of resistance near Eaton's.
Turned out we just had to change the name to "Eaton" and something in there about their own pension and justice systems and all kinds of little, honestly, little concessions of partial independence. Les Anglais may bitch and whine about how lucky, lucky Quebec gets special treatment, but....it seems to have worked. No killings.
The new Trudeau could change the story with the "Canadian 1.5 State solution".
I'm kidding. Of course. Or, really, providing a Poilievre fantasy issue.
You can absolutely devise a version of reality where a one-state solution works — there's already plenty of Arab Israelis, e.g., who have a good amount of political power, in normal times. I just don't think it's the reality we're living in. It's not like this was a functional relationship that had tensions arising from inequality (Quebec, Northern Ireland) it was a fundamentally unworkable relationship from the very beginning. It would have been nice if the world had figured this out in 1948, instead of shrugging and moving on, but here we are.
Separating would also be *very good* for Israeli politics. If a division were fair and amicable, it would finally remove, I think, that existential dread that Israelis face.
I had the good luck to catch the lecture a decade or so back, from Dr. Ali Abunimah at U.Calgary about his one-state crusade (whoa, wrong word!).
He made a very persuasive case, and Wikipedia says he is still pushing it, calling the two-state option the impossible, never-happen one.
That's a good observation. Those parallels did not occur to me!
I guess if Israel was founded almost a century prior and they had fought a seven year war with only one Arab neighbour, then maybe there would be some equivalencies. Sadly, Israel was the last country in the region carved out by the Colonial Powers and seems to have paid the price from the start.
I agree. The problems stem from Israel being carved out by the Colonial Powers.
The entire area as stands today was created by Colonial Powers. Before that it was the Empire of the day that decided the delineation. If it was done in 1848 we wouldn't be having this conversation but, rather mostly symbolic sharing as in Canada.
Hard one.
Important to note that Israeli citizens have been anti-Netanyahu for quite some time and I think that’s important. Also the young up-and-coming Israeli generation seem to have been serious peace-niks especially regarding Palestine. Now they’ve been radicalized, most probably for life.
I’m not as sanguin as you that ordinary Palestinians are as secular-thinking (meaning they just want a good life regardless of their culture and religious beliefs) as you imply. Sad to say, but islamic countries don’t seem to fare well overall, especially for girls and women. West Africa, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, and on and on. Those who have inherited a great bargaining power (oil), do well economically but they have a one-horse economy that is never good in a changing world. And we see the unrest in Iran. Part is due I suppose to economic decline due to international sanctions, but mostly I think the young people are fed-up with the status quo.
I hope you’re right Justin, but I remain deeply sceptical. I believe given freedom, Palestinians will squander it.
Would be extremely happy to be proven wrong.
I appreciate the skepticism!
While I think colonialism can become an excuse for bad, corrupt governments behaving badly, it's hard to separate out all the promise and opportunity in some of these countries — Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq — from Western (and Soviet) meddling, which left them ravaged, poorer, angry, and susceptible to takeover and radicalization. Once upon a time, I was pursuing a history degree with this general focus.
Anyway, I think you're right that young people (and, increasingly, old one too!) are fed up with the status quo in many of these countries. They want security, liberty, and stability. Israel has a really great opportunity, here, to help Palestinians get all three — and to help itself in the process.
I agree « Israel has a great opportunity to help Palestinians » but as it stands now I can’t imagine Palestinians ever cooperating with Jews. My brother backpacked around the Middle East back in the 70’s and 80’s when it was somewhat safe then for a white male, and he was invited to share dinner often with families (men only, of course). He said languages, cuisine, and culture changed depending on region, except for one thing in common: hatred of Jews. Dogs, they were called. I never forgot that, anecdotal as it is. I truly want to be an optimist like you Justin and I do wish the best for Palestinians. They live in paradise. In my very humble opinion (hope to be argued out of it) I think they would have to rise above Islam and Sharia to overcome a medieval mindset and truly flourish.
Reading that comment it strikes me that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence for populations. Countries that are blowing up want stability and countries that have had stability for decades currently have pretty big chunks of their populations that seem to want to blow it up.
I had heard the name Barghouti before but knew nothing about him. Thanks for that piece of the puzzle. Very illuminating!
Thanks for taking on this issue and for outlining a possible path to peace. With such a lengthy warring history, its clear that polarization isn't a solution.
I grew up idolizing Israel, from Charleton-Heston-provided History (Good Guys vs Romans and Egyptians, 2 movies), to all their wars and their responses to terror attacks. Always the heroes, both military and moral. Took 1985-1995 to turn me around.
I read "The Israel Lobby" when it came out, and the Gaza response has made me completely accept that the book is dead-on. There's nothing opponents can do. There is no "Palestine Lobby". At least not remotely comparable. Israel will lose power over America when multiple Congressmen lose their jobs to a dedicated pro-Palestine voting bloc like Israel enjoys.
About all journalists can do is make sure we are aware of what's happening to Palestinians, and monitor polls - which should change, one would think, over coming decades. Yes, decades. Israel will lose support some decade,maybe have to accept terms they don't like. But not this decade.
That "future" dream was a sweet dream, though. One can hope.
👌🏻
I wonder if there are any Ukrainians who, if elected as President, could bring peace to that country.
I mean, Zelensky was elected on a peace platform! I'm not sure Ukrainian voting patterns will determine resolution, here.
I wanted to draw the parallel between 2 'countries' under occupation, with the expectation that no one would suggest any Ukrainian President would cede to Russia's minimum requirements for peace.
Why expect it of a Palestinian President?
Turning 180°, is it likely that any Israeli Prime Minister would cede to Palestinians' minimum requirements for peace?
Ok, I see what you mean, now.
The difference between Israel and Russia is that Israel still has a system that can change itself. Netanyahu doesn't want a long-term peace deal, he's made that clear. The Israeli people have the power to replace him and usher in someone who does — and more and more it looks like that's what they're do. In that context, it's both sides' obligations to get to the table and make a deal. So it's not uniformly the Palestinians' responsibility, but they're half of the equation, for sure.
"...one would suggest any Ukrainian President would cede to Russia's minimum requirements for peace." are your referring to the occupied territories or to the entire state of Israel?
I can't speak for the Russians or Israelis, Ukrainians or Palestinians.
I'm asking for clarification of your point.